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Friday, March 18, 2005
The Radical Right Says, "F**K YOU, PAY ME!"
"If the debtor be insolvent to serve creditors, let his body be cut in pieces on the third market day. It may be cut into more or fewer pieces with impunity. Or, if his creditors consent to it, let him be sold to foreigners beyond the Tiber."
A report released last month by Harvard Medical and Law has been nice enough to point out that our bankruptcy system works differently from ancient Rome's; creditors carve up the debtor's assets, not the debtor.
They were also nice enough to point out that after conducting their survey they found out that half of the bankruptcy filings in 2001 were due to medical causes. Here are some highlights from their study;
Who Files For Bankruptcy?
The average debtor was a 41-year-old woman with children, and at least some college education. On average, each bankruptcy involved 1.32 debtors with 1.33 dependents. The 1.4 million personal bankruptcies filed in 2001 involved a total of 3.7 million people: 1.9 million were the debtor and the other 1.8 million were their children or dependents. More than one quarter cited illness or injury as reasons for their bankruptcy, 46.2% fit the criteria for "major medical bankruptcy," 54.5% met the criteria for "any medical bankruptcy."
During the two years before filing, 40.3% had lost telephone service; 19.4% had gone without food; 53.6% went without needed doctor or dentist visits because of the cost (but wait, aren't they sick?); and 43.0% had failed to fill a prescription (but wait, how do they get better?).
Following bankruptcy filings, about one-third of debtors continued to have problems paying bills (under the new law they should have no problem paying some of it back). 3.1% were turned down for jobs (don't worry, they will be able to pay it back); 5.8% were turned down for mortgages; 4.9% were turned down for apartment rentals; and 9.3% were turned down for car loans because of the bankruptcy on their credit reports.
In three-quarters of cases the person experiencing the illness/injury was the debtor; in 13.3% a child; and in 8.2% an elderly relative.
Almost 60% of families bankrupted by medical problems indicated medical bills (from medical providers) as the primary reason for bankruptcy; 47.6% cited drug costs; 35.3% had curtailed employment because of illness---often (52.8%) to care for someone else.
Almost 76% of these debtors were insured at the onset; 60.1% initially had private coverage, but one-third of them lost coverage during the course of their illness. 5.7% had Medicare, 8.4% had Medicaid and 1.6% were veterans with military coverage.
The Human Face of Bankruptcy
Debtors' narratives painted a picture of families arriving at the bankruptcy courthouse emotionally and financially exhausted, hoping to stop the collection calls, save their homes, and stabilize their economic circumstances.
Many of the debtors detailed ongoing problems in access to care. Some expressed fear that their medical providers would refuse to continue their care, and a few recounted actual experiences of this kind. Several had used credit cards to charge medical bills they had no hope of paying.
The co-occurrence of medical and job problems was a common theme. For instance one debtor underwent lung surgery and suffered a heart attack. Both hospitalizations were covered by his employer-paid insurance, but he was unable to return to his physically-demanding [sic] job. He found new employment, but was denied coverage due to his pre-existing conditions which required costly ongoing care. Similarly, a school-teacher who suffered a heart attack was unable to return to work for many months, and hence her coverage lapsed. A hospital wrote off her $20,000 debt, but she was nonetheless bankrupted by doctor bills and the cost of medications.
A second common theme was sounded by parents of premature infants or chronically ill children; many took time off from work or incurred large bills for home-care while they were at their jobs.
Finally, many of the insured debtors blamed high co-payments and deductibles for their financial ruin. For example, a man insured through his employer (a large national firm) suffered a broken leg and torn knee ligaments. He incurred $13,000 in out-of-pocket costs for co-payments, deductibles and uncovered services---much of it for physical therapy.
It's time to play political hard ball with this issue! If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you don't want to play with the big dogs than go sit on the porch you rightwing corporate lap dogs!
Before you radical, Bible thumping, ass clowns start spewing onto your blogs that people need to be responsible for their bills and stop applying for credit cards, maybe you should do some research and think for yourselves. Your usual ramblings of the rightwing party line are not only getting boring, they are downright ignorant to the problem at hand.
"It seems to me to be fair to those people to whom they pay their debt. We preserve the principle of a fresh start, but we also establish a principle that if one has the ability to repay some of their debt, they are not going to get off scot-free,"
Senator Charles E. Grassley
Now let me be the first to translate this into plain English so that all you rightwing nuts can understand the basic concept of the new law if passed;
“That’s the way it was with a wise guy partner. He gets his money no matter what. You got no business? Fuck you, pay me. You had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. The place got hit by lighting and World War III started in the lounge? Fuck you, pay me…”
Mobster Henry Hill
This is not a Republican versus Democrat issue! We all get sick in similar ways and all have the same problems with medical coverage. This is about greedy corporations wanting more and Bush & Co. all to happy to oblige them. Is this what you call compassionate conservatism?
So, if this law passes the House, all you rightwing fanatics that think this is all about people being more responsible with their credit cards can take this post, put it in your pipe, smoke it, get cancer, go bankrupt from treatments, claim bankruptcy, get turned down and die (in that order)!
And to think they also wanted to cut Medicaid!
Posted by The Bastard at 02:30 AM in Economics, Politics | Permalink
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Comments
Gee funny bastard, according to some of those right wing "anal-lysts" it's allways because people are out there running up huge debts on expensive luxury items (hmm like food and shelter???) and not because they are ever in trouble. Pay your bills, pay your bills, pay your bills is their mantra. Of course, they way they make it sound, only liberal socialists pigs ever have to declare bankruptcy.
Thinking more broadly though - do you see the pattern emerging from this Administration? Restrict bankruptcy to "protect" the credit companies (even though they admit thatthey are having record profits); make litigation on product liability cases so difficult that most peopel can't go after the guilty company; cut the ruleson who is eleigble for overtime and trounce a minimum wage hike with the same old "it costs jobs it costs jobs" mantra which is spurious. This is an all out attack on us for the benefit of CEO's and board memebers. The corporate cowboy makes no bones about whose horse his saddle it hitched to.
Posted by: The Cranky Liberal | Mar 18, 2005 7:22:02 AM
Cranky, no doubt you are dead on. Its funny when you think about the fact that Americans work the most amount of hours per year with less vacation time then any other nation in the world, yet our employees give some of the smallest raises. At the same time unemployment is going up. Would that be because what I just said?
Let me repeat, Americans work longer hours so that employers don't have to hire more people? Hmmmm, ain't that a big "kiss my corporate ass" cookie to chew on.
But back to bankruptcy, the other point I wanted to make was that the Re-pubic-ans did away with the usary laws for each state (yep, taking away more state rights)years ago, opening the flood gates for credit card companies to raise their interest rates to whatever they wanted, which is also part of this problem. Yet now they are all complaining that people need to pay off their "credit card" debt (wink, wink) because we all know this is where the problem lies!
Lies is exactly it, ALL RADICAL RIGHTWING, CORPORATE FLOWCHART HUGGING BULLSHIT (Flies circling included)
Posted by: The Bastard | Mar 18, 2005 7:58:19 AM
Well, now that so many middle and working poor class are burried under piles of debt, they are playing their card to grab everyone they can.
Would be interesting to have a public site that listed every official voting for this issue who have at one time or another claim personal or business bankruptcy. Bet that would be quite a list!
Posted by: Rocky Moore | Mar 18, 2005 8:05:45 AM
I do agree people all get into tight spots SOMETHING needs to be in place to stop people like my sister-in-law. They make easily 45K a year and live in a rural trailor park (ugh) in Oklahoma, they impulse buy ALL the time things that are not needed to survive. They will skip car and house payments in order to go to a rock concert with their 3 year old. In order to squeeze out of the Repo man's grasp, they have filed bankruptcy even though they JUST paid cash for a THIRD car. Tell me these kinds of people don't leave a scar on the Economy.
Posted by: James | Mar 18, 2005 11:05:35 AM
Damn, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Ch. 13 saved my wife and I from being homeless and I thank God above that it was an option for us.
You're right - it's NOT a "left" vs. "right" thing. After all, right-winger, Donald Trump has filed NUMEROUS times. I guess it's ok for the rich, right-winger capitalists to file again and again but NOT okay for the "little guy" to get himself some protection from the capitalists who lure him into excessive debt.
Something wrong with that picture....
Posted by: Bloggin Airman | Mar 18, 2005 11:55:45 AM
Hey James, I agree, people like that are not down on their luck - they are thieves. Rules should be in place to prevent that. However my question is WHO KEEPS GIVING THEM CREDIT? What kind of company can afford to keep throwing money at a bad investment? Should we right laws to protect companies from being stupid whiel penalizing people for the same?
Thats my biggest issue. Most of the people are not like your sister-in-law, but people who were wiped out. Those people are getting screwed in order to save companies from themselves.
How is that fair?
Posted by: The Cranky Liberal | Mar 18, 2005 3:37:41 PM
It is nice that my former senator from Iowa and a man I have had dinner with a few times wants to make people who can pay responsible for their debts. I would support Chuck if he seemed sincere. But doesn't the bill allow wealthy persons to set up trusts that can not be touched and let them keep their mansions. I suppose it is fair though. You wouldn't want people used to soft water and caviar out there trying to survive on the streets.
Posted by: Me4President | Mar 18, 2005 5:30:37 PM
Rocky Moore But they are allowed to claim bankruptcy, they are rich, they make mistakes.
James The Democrats in the Senate tried to put stuff into the amendment that would have punished these types of abuses but still protect medical, senior citizens and active military but the Re-pubic-ans ran rough shot all over them. Why? Because they know thats where they will pick up the most money, but they don't want the general public to know that. Now whats going to happen? These types of cases will now fall onto the welfare system? 3.8 million new bodies to add to the welfare roll call, homeless roll call, Medicare, Medicaid and every other welfare program we have going.
Nex they will start complaining that people are doing the "welfare" thing on purpose and they will try to take that away. I can't say it any other way, wake up, these people don't care about any of us, Democrat or Re-pubic-an!
Bloggin Airman Your absolutely right and their are no new laws in place to keep him from doing it again and again and again. But the radical right, Bible humping, ass clowns stand their and protect these very people. Little do they know that this law was designed to hurt them. It clearly states "FUCK YOU, PAY ME!" to the poor. It's class warfare plain and simple.
The Cranky Liberal Well....you said it! Never mind!
Me4President Whens the first rally? Can I make the signs for your campaign? I like to color.
Hey, did you notice know radical zingbats replying? Is that because they don't like the fact laced post? Or are they gonna just stick to the run up the credit cards because I'm irresponsible story?
Posted by: The Bastard | Mar 18, 2005 6:42:09 PM
B: I agree with you on this one.
My family of five is sinking because we have to buy our own health insurance. The only premium we can afford is for a policy with a $12,000 annual out-of-pocket. We met it in 2004, and we can't pay it off because--guess what--we keep having to go to the doctor. We have *ZERO* credit card debt--don't even own one. We don't even have a car payment--just a mortgage, student loan, and massive, growing medical debt. Starting this month we can't afford to buy health insurance at all. I figured if we had another year like 2004, we could just declare bankruptcy. Now our Republican friends in Congress make even that outlet uncertain.
I don't say this to whine. God is good. Just to let you know that I appreciate your speaking out about an issue that matters.
Posted by: Milton Stanley | Mar 18, 2005 8:49:29 PM
Thats exactly why I had to say something about it. Its not over yet. the bill might have passed the Senate but it still has to get through the House. Write your congressman, forward this post to whoever you can to convince them to write their congressman. This amendment is going to hurt every working class chump who ever comes down with a sickness. These guys are robbing us blind, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN AND AGAIN, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOUR RIGHT OR LEFT MONEY IS GREEN AND THEY WANT IT!!!!!!!
Posted by: The Bastard | Mar 18, 2005 8:59:11 PM
I was very fascinated by your statistics and feeling much compassion for bankrupt families. We've been through many financial trials ourselves. But I stopped reading and in my mind you totally lost credibility when you started in with the name calling. I especially thought "radical, Bible thumping, ass clowns" was offensive. If you truly want to persuade open-minded people to change their perspectives, name-calling is a very ineffective way to do it.
Posted by: kris | Mar 18, 2005 9:44:36 PM
Kris The statistics speak for themselves. And I'm glad you were fascinated by them. I'm not looking for credibility for myself just putting the facts out there so people understand exactly what they supported when they voted these
"radical, Bible thumping, ass clowns" into office. If you are a religous person I would think you would be more offended that the Bible belt highjacked religion in this country and is using it to tear everything apart. Call it what it is but sometimes you have to brand people for what they are and these guys are "radical, Bible thumping, ass clowns". Thanks for visiting!
Posted by: The Bastard | Mar 18, 2005 9:57:15 PM
I posted on this same subject about a week and a half ago. Don't get me started...It's not even that's it's such a crucial issue (which it is) but just how blatantly our "representatives" fell all over their 6-figure bribes, I mean contributions, and sold the rest of us down the river. Every logical or rational argument got drowned in an avalanche of money.
Just to remove any last pretense about these sluts representing "we the people," I think these whores should have a dress code just so everyone knows exactly who and what they are. All senators and congresspersons should be required to come to work in supershort dresses, fishnet stockings, lowcut blouses and lots and lots of heavy makeup. Since they're whores, they might as well look the part.
Posted by: tomharper | Mar 19, 2005 3:08:13 AM
Bastard? Keep slinging those names at us....wouldn't want you to hurt yourself or go against your nature...besides, I really like having people that can give as good as they get.
Tom? If you give the folks on the hill a dress code like that they can just come to work in their evening wear.....where's the punishment in that?
Posted by: Kender | Mar 19, 2005 3:27:28 AM
Tom - I love getting screwed by these guys but for them not to even have the common courtesy to give the American public a reach around is just down right rude!
Kender - Branding someone is half the game. But the real truth falls on the fact that the leaders of the larger evangelical churches are also political whores as Tom so eloquently pointed out. They are willing to expose their congregations to the dangers of these rightwing fundamentalists that now control the White House, the Senate and the House by backing them just so they can push some of their agenda's through congress.
These jackasses might claim to walk along the moral high road but its all window dressing. They have one thing and one thing only in mind and that’s to stay rich and protect their interests. They high jacked the Christian faith in this country no differently than the terrorists high jacked the Muslim faith. Just this bankruptcy alone will hurt how many people in their congregations yet the preachers say nothing. Why is that you suppose?
Now I'm not saying that the far left libertarians are any better they to have the same goals as the radical right they're just taking a different route to get there.
I mean come on, the whole Terri thing today only had one Democrat speak out against the Re-pubic-ans. They sold out to protect their own interests. And there is no doubt in my mind that they cut deals over Terri's body. Their all filth but I do believe the righties or dirtier!
Posted by: The Bastard | Mar 19, 2005 3:50:33 AM
There's always a story of one person or bunch of people abusing the system that people highlight whenever they want to reform laws. Bankruptcy laws surely have been abused by people who continually overspend, finance things they don't need to and build up a lot of debt; but, what about people who have had huge medical bills or some other unexpected financial crisis?
Posted by: sally | Mar 19, 2005 3:45:55 PM
My cure, two random laws have to be repealed for everyone they pass.
Posted by: Robert | Mar 28, 2005 12:54:40 PM
I agree with you on these immoral so-called "representatives". They may be okay when they run for office, but once there, they go off of the deep end, and all hell breaks loose. Just to see who, what, when and where they can screw the quickest.
This thing of filing for bankruptcy I can see for a lot of people who have fallen on hard times, medical problems and the like. With current laws going into effect, there will be more people trying to go onto welfare that need it, and will be turned down.
Mainly, due to the fact that a lot of "StateS" have implimented the fact that you can only get welfare IF you have children and you can only have it for so long, medical problems or not.
Then on top of it, you've got these "radical, Bible thumping, ass clown's" sending a lot of our jobs out of the country to put more money in their pockets. How are these people suppose to pay back what they owe on minimum wage?
And it people like Terri that get caught in the middle and used for someone else's gain.
Then you've got people like the person above complaining because a person speaks their mind. If you don't like what's being said/written, don't listen/read. Who are you to tell someone what they can or can not say or write? That's part of what's wrong with this so called "Free America" that we have. There's to many people out there with not enough to do, to much time on their hands. Looking for something to do, then they start meddling in other people's business.
Grow up people. What are we going to have to do, have a revolution to stop some of this nonsense?
Posted by: Jo Ellen | Aug 6, 2005 7:50:05 AM
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