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Saturday, December 17, 2005
Fighting Bush and His Reign of Terror
How can this fucking dip shit honestly come out and say that spying on each and every one of us will make us safe? Now I don't know how the NSA works and for that matter I don't think any of us knows but maybe we can all throw them for a loop. As I'm typing this I am waiting for a knock on the door and a the shear sensation of a black jack hitting the back of my skull.
Anyway, I say that from here on out every post that is written, every e-mail that is sent and every phone call that is made every American should make a point to mention terrorism, bombs, Al-Qaeda, Bill Clinton, social reform and any other keyword that would trip off the sensors of the NSA. Lets make them work overtime and lets send a clear message to the White House that Americans don't like to be treated like Germany circa 1941. Check it out, look up stories of little kids turning their parents in to the SS for not talking nice about Adolf. People this is serious, this fucking lunatic needs to be stopped!
Just remember folks, you don't have to be a Democrat or Republican for this act of terrorism to infringe on your civil liberties. I'm almost certain that the NSA is not matching your names up against a list of card carrying Republicans and saying, "Nope this ones a good egg!", they are spying on everyone.
When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Here is a perfect example (thanks dannybill) of what is happening. Americans spying on Americans. Is this what it has come down to? If this is the case, the war on terror is over, the terrorists have won. They have achieved their wildest dreams and they didn't even have to invade this country and occupy it, they manipulated our government to do it for them. They manipulated our government to take away our civil rights. This is not a white thing or a black thing. This is not a faith thing or a non-faith thing. This is not a conservative ideology vs. a liberal ideology. This affects every single American rich and poor!
Posted by The Bastard at 07:57 PM in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
From now on, whenever a proclaimed "libertarian" says anything supportive of Bush and the Sleazy Cons, I'm going to list 50 nasty epithets in a row their way.
Someone dare me.
Posted by: Jersey McJones | Dec 17, 2005 8:22:16 PM
This is just absolutely insane. That jackass stood there and honestly tried to convince us that this was a good thing. All I know is that when we were attacked on 9/11 and people started saying, "whatever it takes", I knew we were fucked!!!! I would say, "but to what extent?", and the asshats on the right would say, "I'm willing to sacifice!"
Fuck this.
Shhhhhh, did you hear that? I thought I heard a clicking sound.
Anyway,
Wait! There it is again! You heard it right?
Hold on there is someone at the window.........
Posted by: The Bastard | Dec 17, 2005 8:50:59 PM
Also (As reported by Rawstory) to earn a vist by federal agents, call your library and reserve a copy of Mao Tse-Tung's tome on Communism called "The Little Red Book."
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-17-05/a09lo650.htm
Posted by: dannybill | Dec 17, 2005 9:12:50 PM
What's scary is that it's relatively tame compared to some of the shit that's been going on behind the scenes that never even made the headlines.
If you're not familiar with the concept of 'data mining', it essentially involves looking for patterns of data that have no obvious correlation, but can be used to predict the possibility of something else. A perfect example of this is the way that Amazon.com serves up product recommendations based on what you've previously browsed and/or purchased, cross-referenced against other users' browsing and purchasing habits.
What's chilling is that this concept is being used by state law enforcement to comb through credit histories, marriage and divorce records, driver's license info and the like without any suspicion of a crime having been committed, looking for patterns of data that match those of known criminals. In theory, you could find yourself under surveillence or criminal investigation based on purely circumstantial evidence.
Say for example, you're a granola type who likes to hunt and fish. Over the course of a year, you follow the plans in an old issue of Mother Earth News and put in a hydroponic system to grow organic tomatoes and peppers in your garage. In order to do so, you lay in for supplies of rockwool, fertilizer and PVC pipe by mail-order, all charged to your debit card. Once you're up and running, you put your plants on a twelve-hour light rotation cycle. Within the same year, you also decide to purchase a new high-powered rifle for your bear hunting vacation in Montana, which you've arranged via a small charter plane outfit and charged to your Mastercard.
Surprise, surprise! When you show up at the hangar with your duffel bag and your gun case, there's a DEA strike team there waiting for you. A few seconds later, you're eatin' pavement while they turn your luggage inside out. Back at home, another DEA team is trashing your house looking for evidence. Turns out that your pattern of electricity usage tagged you as suspicious. So the electric company reported you, and the state police did a little fishing into your credit card purchases. They decided you looked like an armed-and-dangerous drug smuggler. Sounded good enough to a judge so he signed a warrant. Unfortunately for you, back at home it turns out there's a quarter ounce of weed that your college-age kid had tucked into his sock drawer. The DEA seizes your house and you spend the next two years and go nearly bankrupt trying to get it back.
God Bless Amerikkka!
Posted by: Joe Snitty | Dec 17, 2005 10:57:59 PM
I always think of that verse whenever Bush and his cabal manage to exclude or marginalize some other group of Americans. People who hate will continue looking when they eliminate those on the top of their list. Collaboration does not lend immunity. Whenever Coulter or Malkin open their mouths to lick the hand of the patriarchy that supports them, I wonder at their outrage when they are discarded along with all the other women on the purge list.
Posted by: The Fat Lady Sings | Dec 17, 2005 11:45:10 PM
Hey, words just don't fit for what this President has done and what's so scary about it folks is that this man just don't get it. He's doing just what he normally does, defending what he's done.
Posted by: Larry Sadler | Dec 18, 2005 12:27:01 AM
Joe, did this happen to you? :-)
Fatlady, whats funny is that I don't see the usual Repubs on this site chirping in on this.
Larry, he gets it alright, he is plaining his dumb role that appeals to so many americans, 51% to be precise.
Posted by: The Bastard | Dec 18, 2005 1:05:31 AM
Stop Whining.
This measure is for suspected terrorists not you. The NSA deals in espionage and spying. This isn't band camp. Wake up to reality for a second and realize Clinton's inaction in the 90's was not helpful. Active surveillance of suspected terrorists is vital in the war on terrorism. The 9-11 commission specifically proved that the inability of our Intel agencies to track suspected terrorists was a key reason why Al Qaeda was able to pull of 9-11. That is why they allowed our Intelligence agencies to track suspected terrorists without a warrant.
Posted by: Opinionnation | Dec 18, 2005 2:20:12 AM
The most important thing the 9/11 commission told anyone is how much information Ws white house had about the attacks b4 9/11. And in his incompetence, how he failed to protect the united states when he had plenty of info obtained legally, now we are supposed to pretend allowing him to get wiretaps without warrants is is going to help him protect us even further?
Ive already explained to you O-N how what bush did, is not even allowed under the patriot act. Yet talking to you is kinda like talking to the floor so i shouldn't act so surprised.
However, once again your comment ran off in all kinds of directions was very incoherent.
So please 'stop your whining' you little neo-nazi, it's giving me a headache!
Posted by: Joseph Meadows | Dec 18, 2005 4:23:13 AM
Just a thought ( I am a bit miffed too)
Ok so Bush gathers info by spying on them. What does he get out of it? Absolutely nothing! Because if that spying is his only evidence of a crime how could he use it in court? There isn't one court in this land that would uphold the law and toss that spying evidence.
But then again, if it's someone is committing a horrific crime and the only way to catch them safely is to spy, well.... what are we gonna do?
You are watched all day long pretty much if you leave your house by cameras in buildings, stores and signal lights. Why is it we are not opposed of that? The "Man" could for example say you ran a red light, just to catch you doing something else at your house. I am sorta glad Bush came clean on this. It's a bit sickening knowing our government is watching us illegally. But I think the Adolf, SS comments and McJersey's "I'm going to list 50 nasty epithets in a row their way" go a bit too far in casting the President in a dark shadow of evil. So though I disagree with Mr. Bush, what I just said Jersey is a "dare".
Posted by: Steve | Dec 18, 2005 11:24:30 AM
Nazi ha Joseph. It very ineresting how democrates and liberals have and continue to try and organize shoutdowns at the presidents speech and others across the country who share his opinions. Isnt that what nazis did?
Anyway if you want to talk about pre 9/11 intelligence you better come with some ammo. Can you explain to me how the pentagon and the white house recieved intelligence that Mohammed Atta and his buddies were in the US and were up to no good. And I do believe that was the late summer of 2000 or 1999. Can you also explain to me how Osama Bin Laden was offered to the US by Sudan on a silver platter and Slick Willy did nothing for fear of prosecution. And last but not least. How we were attacked numerous times on foreign and domestic soil and Willy did nothing AGAIN!
Posted by: bushleaguer | Dec 18, 2005 1:25:59 PM
Fuck it! I hope they nuke the whole fucking country! We've ALWAYS had spies doing illegal fucking shit in this country! Fuck it BLOW UP the whole fucking country so you never have to know why we didn't know! Fuck it and fuck you!
You bunch of stupid fucks!
Just a side note: The "Government" can spy on me all the fuck they want! Why? I don't have a fucking thing to hide!
Posted by: Treason | Dec 18, 2005 2:52:41 PM
Opinionnation,
the day I stop whining is the day they will have come for me and then who's gonna save your ass!
Steve,
Thats what Adolf did, he spied on his own people and yes, he convinced kids to turn in their parents. This is a Democracy and you cannot have a government doing this. It has been all over the news that these warrants are very easily attainable from the FISA Court. So if they are that easy why didn't he go there first? Unless he had something to hide or felt he would not have gotten the warrant. This opens Pandora's Box of "what else has he done?"
He works for us remember!
Bushleaguer,
Actually the Nazi's silenced their adverasaries. And then when the time was right, they lit a building on fire, blamed the communists and the socialists, galvanized the population to levels of mass fear and then took over the country. Hmmm, sound familiar, no I'm not blaming Bush & Co. for ramming planes into buildings but they sure knew how to capitalize on it. Go read the "mission statement" for Project for the New American Century (which is what our foreign policy is based on) and you will see that their findings call for something exactly like 9/11 would have to happen for them to implement a great majority of the strategy mentioned in the statement. America would not have put up with these intrusions before 9/11 but now we live in a different world so lets throw civil liberties out with the bath water and call it a day. Bullshit! They can't even prove if the PATRIOT Act has been a success. Well they can but then they would have to kill us because it's a secret. Again, bullshit!
Treason,
What can I say? Keep being treason, because soon not doing anything might just get you a charge of treason.
Posted by: The Bastard | Dec 18, 2005 5:38:36 PM
Bastard,
I chose the name "Treason" because of BIO! Why? Because it's what you, this blog, and the left represent! And, it's what you people represent day in and day out, TREASON!
I have a real name, EMMET, and it has nothing to do with treason. It has everything to do with life, liberty and justice. Nothing of which y'all here at BIO! stand for!
Posted by: treason | Dec 18, 2005 10:08:30 PM
Oh come on. If there was someone in your town who frequently took out books on explosives, weapons tactics and chemistry wouldnt you want to know why. But then again if you simply seek knowledge on those subjects and the history of them, then why hide it. Theres nothing wrong with this at all, the innocent have nothing to hide. Trust me, we are under more surveillence by the terrorist than the government is with means to protect us.
Posted by: bushleaguer | Dec 18, 2005 10:30:11 PM
Steve said:
You are watched all day long pretty much if you leave your house by cameras in buildings, stores and signal lights. Why is it we are not opposed of that?
The smartass answer: "You didn't mind when the doctor hit your left kneecap with the mallet, so why are you complaining now that he broke the right one with a sledgehammer?"
The serious answer: The difference in scope and purpose is both very real and very important. The idea of having a surveillance camera watch me in a bank lobby, or at a stoplight, or at an ATM, or in a department store isn't particularly threatening to me because it's only intended to monitor my activity for the period of time at which I'm at that location. If I don't loot the ATM, rob a bank teller, run a red light or shoplift, then nobody cares what I'm doing during that period of time. K-mart, First National Bank or the traffic court in the city of Dogfart, SD couldn't give a shit less whether or not I'm on tape.
Where it gets scary is when someone decides to institutionalize surveillance and use it to track patterns of behavior on an ongoing basis. Add face recognition technology to a national ID system, toss in a patch into credit card transactions, and you have the makings of an automated Orwellian nightmare. Essentially, every action you take in public becomes part of a permanent warrantless search.
The reason that Congress restricted domestic surveillance in the first place was that it was being regularly abused by law enforcement. Here we are, a few years into the Patriot Act, and the current administration is already using the relaxed surveillance laws to track its political enemies instead of terrorist groups.
Go figure.
Posted by: Joe Snitty | Dec 18, 2005 11:31:14 PM
My real name is Steve. It takes a real man to not hide behind an identity!
Posted by: steve | Dec 18, 2005 11:32:03 PM
Snitty:
You are right but then could be just as wrong as government surveilance. You and I are pretty much agreed on this one. But... let's look at another place where government surveilance could ruin our freedom: Your Universal Health Care.
Government surveillance is almost a guarentee with Universal Health Care. Your government can watch you getting if it is taking care of your health. How so? Imagine if you committed a crime, say something petty like didn't pay your car registration or ignored that court summons for jury duty. Your name is tainted. You seek the freedom of medical care and you are busted. The government could also know what kind of care you are getting and if budget cuts were to come, say by a severe recession, you may be shit out of luck or say that the government just flat out doesn't want to pay for it.
You couldn't really use the greater good argument on this one could ya?
Posted by: steve | Dec 18, 2005 11:46:45 PM
That's wonderful Steve. Glad to hear you're so secure in your masculinity, and that telling us all about it makes you feel good about yourself.
That'll be $50 for your gender confusion therapy session. You can remit payment via the ActBlue link on the main page.
Posted by: Joe Snitty | Dec 18, 2005 11:53:40 PM
Oh Jesus...Snitty... c'mon. I was just playing along with Treason. Ya don't have to don't have to be a punk. I'm sure your name is Joe!!
Posted by: steve | Dec 19, 2005 12:07:49 AM
Well my name is not Bastard but I, like many others pick a code name because the internet is soiled with deviants and other evil-doers. In this day and age to use your real name on the internet is insane. At least coupled with your last name is insane.
It's not about being a real man it's about being responsible in this day and age. A man was killed a few years back by another man because they were arguing politics. Don't remember the link but if Dr. Forbush is reading this thread he could supply it.
Posted by: The Bastard | Dec 19, 2005 12:43:43 AM
The reason these things are frightening is because of the results we've seen when they've been done by other governments and by our own government in the past.
Bush's administration is using a lot of the methods normally used by totalitarian systems on the far left and far right. We're seeing them:
1. Branding anyone who questions, criticizes, or disagrees with their actions as unpatriotic.
2. Using real or imaginary external threats to whip up fear-based pseudo-patriotism and nationalism and distract people from what's going on at home.
3. Becoming more and more secretive, using national security as an excuse to cover up actions that would cause outrage if known.
4. Creating a domestic spying system and building files on people who they consider problems due to their political views, religion, or ethnicity, rather than because those people are doing anything that actually threatens national security (for example, the recent news stories about the military infiltrating a Quaker anti-war group and labeling them a security threat.)
5. Using Orwellian "doublespeak" - twisting the meanings of words and calling things the opposite of what they are (Clear Skies, Healthy Forests, Patriot Act, etc.)
6. Doing everything they can to control the mass media and the news and other information available to the public; turning what used to be independent watchdogs monitoring the government's actions into propaganda mouthpieces.
7. Cultivating a lack of regard for human rights - arguing that torture, invasion of privacy, depriving people of due process, etc. are necessary for national security.
8. Promoting an all-or-nothing, black-and-white attitude that sees everything in terms of us versus them, good versus evil, etc., and ties government in with an authoritarian form of religion.
9. Making the executive branch above the law and carrying out arbitrary arrests, imprisonments, and torture, as in announcing that the president can declare anyone an "enemy combatant" based solely on his say-so, putting them in a limbo situation where they have neither civilian civil rights nor the rights of a POW, and imprisoning them indefinitely without charging or trying them for any offense or allowing them legal representation or contact with their families. (The USSR had a great constitution on paper, too - the problem there was that it had no connection to reality. We are in danger of the same thing becoming the norm here.)
10. Creating an atmosphere of paranoia where people are spying on each other (remember when they were going to recruit postal workers, plumbers, and anyone else who had access to people's homes to report anyone they considered suspicious?) and you don't know who you can trust; where you have to assume that your actions and words are being watched and it isn't safe to openly challenge the government's actions.
11. Identifying and placing restrictions on people who fall into categories they consider potential threats to their power, even when those people aren't doing anything wrong - check this link (http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/?Page=Article&ID=5828) and read the story of how this administration wants to keep a database of veterans with PTSD, depression, or other emotional or mental disorders, labeling us as "mental defectives" and putting us on the no-fly list. That affects me as a veteran the VA has diagnosed with PTSD, even though I'm a law-abiding citizen, have never been arrested or in any legal trouble more serious than a speeding ticket, and work in a law-enforcement related job.
Steve, these people aren't worried about whether their decisions or actions will stand up in a court of law - those decisions and actions will never see a court of law if Bush's administration doesn't want them to.
The types of actions we're seeing now are often followed by an increasing movement toward government by decree rather than rule of law, persecution of groups considered potential threats to the government's control of the population, and rounding up of actual or potential "troublemakers."
I have to assume I am flagged in their databases -I'm a retired military man and a psychotherapist; both of those groups have been rounded up sooner or later by the Nazis, the Soviets, and most other totalitarian systems.
I'm also on record as having PTSD, and I've been a marksmanship instructor for both the Marine Corps and the state Corrections Department.
They would know that I have a fair number of guns and a concealed carry license and am a member of a local shooting club. I also belong to the ACLU, Amnesty International, the Sierra Club, the American Legion, and am in the process of joining the NRA.
And I sign a lot of liberal/progressive petitions, blow off steam in forums like this, and was a registered Democratic campaign worker in the 2004 election.
So when I see that my country is moving down a path that looks something like the one Germany took in the 1930s, it bothers me. It could happen here.
The people who created our Constitution and Bill of Rights knew what they were doing. They had seen what it was like to live under a government that didn't have those restraints on its actions, and had just fought a war to get out from under one of those governments. They were a lot wiser than this current bunch of yahoos with their contempt for history and for perspectives other than their own. I'm praying that our system is sturdy enough to survive these guys, but I'm not sure of it.
As the bumper sticker says, I love my country, but I fear my government.
Posted by: Liberal Jarhead | Dec 19, 2005 8:02:20 AM
I was playing, Steve. You should have seen the way I tormented my siblings when I was growing up. I missed my calling by not signing up with the CIA... >:)
Posted by: Joe Snitty | Dec 19, 2005 8:02:33 AM
Wait TB, your name isn't The Bastard?
During Viet Nam there were under cover agents on every campus. As much as they tried to make themselves invisible they couldn't--so I would smile for the camera.
They stopped trying to make themselves blend in during Kent State days. They were actually trying to be menacing and I guess make us understand that they were the covert ones and there were others.
Ironically I guess that's when they began losing
Love my country but fear my government also
Steve a woman I'm friendly with had to stop blogging because a man found out her real name and began harrassing her
My niece is eleven. Somethings she knows: never use her real name on the Internet; never have her picture in the Internet; never give out any identifying information
Unfortunately it's not only the government you have to be scared of on the Internet.
It's not a matter of hiding your identity; it's a matter of surviving--literally for kids and women--not having your home address and phone number in the hands of crazy people who just want to drive somebody crazy. I'm not talking political blogging here
We live in a world where you have to take the offense just to be on the defense
Posted by: pia | Dec 19, 2005 9:23:36 AM
Ha, I just called Cong. Rodney Frelinghuysen, my Congressional rep (New Jersey), to register my concern with this issue. They will get back to me. Also, the staff member wished me "Happy Holidays". Why does the Republican party hate the Baby Jesus?
Posted by: wkmaier | Dec 19, 2005 9:48:32 AM
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